TED WONG INTERVIEW
by Bob Landers

Sifu Ted Wong is one of the most respected men in Jeet Kune Do (JKD).  A lot has happened in the JKD world during the last five to ten years, making it fitting for the man-considered by many the foremost teacher and authority on Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kune Do, so it seemed time for an up to date interview. My goal is to ask questions which are on the minds of people, but have not been addressed by a person of Ted Wong’s clout. At the same time he addresses the state of the “JKD Union” per se.  I have asked a lot of technical questions about JKD that merit his insights. He has a lot to say about What JKD is, but a lot more about what JKD is NOT.     

At 70 years of age Sifu Wong still manages to enhance his physical ability and intellectual understanding of Jeet Kune Do, inspiring his students and the Martial Arts Community at large Sifu Wong’s contributions to Jeet Kune Do won him the award of Black Belt Magazine’s Man of the Year considered one of the highest honors in Martial Arts. In addition, he tirelessly tours the world, educating devoted students on the finer points of JKD.  Sifu Wong is not motivated by personal profit or fame.  His actions are always geared towards honoring the memory of his teacher and friend, Bruce Lee.  This interview aims to honor both Bruce Lee and the many followers of JKD by providing readers with a new and enlightened insight into JKD through Ted Wong’s personal experiences.  

It was honor and privilege to spend time with Sifu Wong and the opportunity to interview him.

-Bob Landers Tulsa, OK 

Can you tell us a little about your life prior to meeting Bruce Lee?

Ted Wong: I was interested in martial arts at an early age. I later became interested in boxing, which I watched on TV quite regularly.  When I compared boxing to martial arts, I felt boxing was more realistic. At this point, I no longer had an interest in learning martial arts until I met Bruce Lee.  

There was a time in 1967 when you trained at the LA School as well as privately with Bruce.  Then, shortly thereafter, you began training exclusively with him at home.  How and why did that come about?

TW: When I first started training at the Chinatown school, I had no prior experience in martial arts. Bruce Lee saw that I was short on skill and knowledge, but I think he recognized I had heart. I think he saw that I was dedicated and hard working. I think he felt sorry for me because I was the guy that had little knowledge and skill compared to the rest of the group which, some of them were black belts and boxing champions. After spending time with him at his house, we became very good friends. Also, he found I came from Hong Kong and we spoke the same [native] language. That’s another reason we became good friends.  

You also stated that you and Bruce shared an interest in the old time era of boxing from the 1920’s.

TW: I recall one time Bruce was reading an encyclopedia of boxing and he would ask me questions out of it, like trivia questions. He would ask me questions about boxing including, nicknames of the champions. He was surprised that I knew the answers. Even though I had no experience in boxing, I had a lot of knowledge of boxing. I read a lot of magazines that had to do with boxing. I knew the history of the champions of the past. I think this was another reason why he took me in. Later on, I found out that boxing was one of the subjects that Bruce was heavily interested in. The later JKD evolved along the lines of boxing and fencing.                                                                                                                               

Was the material being taught at the school different from what he was teaching you privately?  Could you elaborate on the differences?

TW: The material being taught at the school was quite different from what he was teaching me privately mainly because the school had a set curriculum, a lesson plan. The school’s material was a little more Wing Chun oriented. I discovered during the private sessions, what was being taught to me was what he was working on at that time. It was quite a departure from the more classical teaching offered at the school. The big difference is the private teaching was more the latter day Jeet Kune Do he was evolving into. I pretty much noticed the differences right away.  

You were in the “Fighting Method” books with Bruce and most of the pictures were shot before the term Jeet Kune Do existed. Do you consider this material JKD? I especially noted the stance used in the books versus the one adopted much later. Could you explain the differences and why those changes were made?

TW: Those pictures were taken in 1967. They depict the early stages of JKD. At this point there was still a heavy Wing Chun influence in his art. Keep in mind, Bruce Lee did not write the text for these books or it would have been quite different. I think later on as his art was evolving very fast, he decided not to publish the book. He was refining and simplifying what he was doing especially the stance for example, if you look at the stance in 1967 then 1971, you can see how he had streamlined it and made it more efficient, this is a product of refinement and simplification. In 1967, his art was still Wing Chun oriented and the stance was more square and open to allow for trapping such as Pak Sao, Lop Sao and so on. As he evolved, he realized trapping was not that efficient and did not fit his evolving structure of fighting. When he changed his stance to be more speed oriented, he pretty much eliminated the trapping. If you understand his JKD philosophy of simplicity and directness, trapping was complex and not very direct and also included a lot of passive moves, for example taking several moves to get the job done. Once he changed the stance, he became more efficient which greatly increased his speed and power production.  

Are you saying that with the change of the stance, being that it was now more sideways and for long range that things like trapping and the 4-corner parry material did not fit the direction he was heading?

TW:  The later stance is more for mobility and evasiveness doing away with the need to parry or blocking. The earlier (more open/square) stance was good for four corner type moves but it takes you away from the power line. The principle of JKD is to not waste motion. Blocking and hitting at the same time is preferred over blocking then hitting, which still takes away your leverage and your power source. The later stance is more designed for longer range allowing you to use interception as the preferred way thus being much faster.  

You are one of three known people to receive a Jeet Kune Do certificate from Bruce Lee.  How did this come about? Looking back, was this a very special moment for you?

TW: It was a very special moment for me. I remember one evening I walked into Bruce Lee’s house for a lesson. He pointed to the table and said, “This is for you, you should be very proud of it as I don’t give many of these out”. I realized it was a certificate in Jeet Kune Do. I felt very proud and was at a loss for words. He once told me he would take me in as his private student because he felt I had potential. I was very hard working and dedicated in my training and I think Bruce saw this and I think that is why I received the Jeet Kune Do certificate.   

Q: What were the private training sessions typically like? What equipment was used?  Was there sparring? What was he teaching you specifically?  Did you participate in physical conditioning with him?

TW: Often the private lessons were about working on what he wanted or was working on at that time. He might use me as a sounding board, for example he might perform a certain kick and ask me how was the speed, power, timing things like that. Sometimes he would work with me on something I was lacking; I recall he worked with me on the sidekick for two months. Sometimes we would work on fun things like movie choreography such as the timing, selling the shot, reaction, and camera angles. We did not do a lot of physical training together but he did set up a program for me to work on my strength. It had weight lifting and sometimes he would show me specific exercises to work on for punching and or kicking strength, and sometimes after the sessions he would take me running with him.  

Speaking of movie stuff, could you comment on your role in helping Bruce with his role in “Marlowe”?

TW: He did work through the fight scene with me. I remember we went to a sporting goods store and he bought a mini trampoline. He used it to practice the scene where he did the flying sidekick at Marlowe (James Garner) and went over the side of the building. He showed me the fight scene and would ask me questions about how it looked. He later took me to the movie set when that particular scene was filmed and I got to meet James Garner. 

I know, in addition to being Bruce’s student, you were a close friend as well.  Do you recall any fond social events the two of you shared?

TW: I have many fond memories of Bruce Lee besides training.  Many times after training we would have a cold drink and discuss martial arts and philosophy. Often times we went to movies and restaurants. He also liked to make trips to bookstores. He invited me, Herb Jackson and James Lee to visit him in Hong Kong in December of 1972.  James Lee was quite ill at that time and couldn’t make it so Herb and I took the trip to Hong Kong and stayed at Bruce Lee’s house for a couple of weeks. One of the funny things was Bruce Lee asked us when we come, bring strictly training equipment because when Bruce went to Hong Kong, he didn’t take any equipment and had nothing to train with.  So Herb and I packed our suitcases full of training gear and did not pack any clothing or personal items. We figured, we would get necessities and clothing when we got there. This was a great time, as Bruce had just completed his movie, so we had time to talk, socialize and do a little light training.                                                                                                                                 

What are your thoughts on Wing Chun as an art standing on its own merits? I know you have a lot of friends in the Wing Chun system.

TW: Wing Chun is a great art. I have a lot of respect for the Wing Chun system. I do have a lot of friends in the Wing Chun system and they are very dedicated and have spent their lives dedicated to their art. Again Wing Chun is a great art and deserving of respect for its own merits.  

Everyone knows Bruce studied Wing Chun for years, as evident from pictures depicting you and him performing it.  However, why do you think he ultimately abandoned it?  

TW: Bruce learned Wing Chun as a youngster for about 5 years so what he taught early on was basically Wing Chun. I think when he came to America it really opened up his thinking and he was able to look into many different martial arts as well as Boxing and Fencing. He then began looking into ways to modify Wing Chun asking him self, “what is the best way to use two arms and two legs.” As Bruce evolved, he realized a lot of Wing Chun was not functional because of its limitations and it was very classical and tradition oriented. Classical and traditional Arts have a tendency not to change and do things the way they were done for 100s of years, so when he started to take his art more into a boxing and fencing direction One thing he looked into was certain sciences such as the laws of physics he realized Wing Chun didn’t fit this direction he was heading. After a fight with a Gung Fu man in Oakland from Hong Kong in 1965, Bruce realized there were a lot of limitations in Wing Chun. He felt he should have finished the fight in a matter of seconds instead of 3 minutes. This was a real turning point as he started to examine more deeply his system of martial art as well as his physical conditioning. I think this event led to the birth of Jeet Kune Do and an even further departure from Wing Chun. His Wing Chun base was acting like a ball and chain to his growth as he began to look for a better way and that is when the boxing and fencing came in. When Bruce dropped Wing Chun and changed the stance that is when he excelled [exponentially].                                                                                                                                                                    

There are people who insist Bruce could never really escape his Wing Chun training because it was his inner structure, they therefore conclude, the key to JKD lies in Wing Chun mechanics. What are your feelings on this?

TW:  I think the people who say that have no real understanding of Bruce Lee’s art at all or they are saying that to promote their own art at the expense of Bruce Lee, because Bruce Lee sells!  This statement to me is really ridiculous because Bruce Lee is Bruce Lee and he had the physical and intellectual ability to change and adapt. The late Ed Parker who was a close friend of Bruce Lee’s once said the first time Ed would show Bruce Lee something, Bruce could perform it as good as Ed. The second time I saw him he could perform it better than me. Bruce Lee once told me that to become a good fighter, the number one thing was the ability to adapt. Bruce Lee had the physical and intellectual ability to do this. Those people who say Bruce Lee could not change from Wing Chun show they have very little understanding about Bruce Lee as a martial artist and they lack any real knowledge of Jeet Kune Do.                                                                                                                                

A lot of first and second-generation Jeet Kune Do students are trying to pass off Wing Chun as Jeet Kune Do. What are your feelings on this?

TW:  Some of the first and second-generation students teach Wing Chun essentially using Wing Chun to reinvent Jeet Kune Do. The reason is, that is all they know. Keep in mind that as Bruce Lee’s private student I say this, had they spent that much time with Bruce Lee they would teach what I teach. All three schools, especially the one in Seattle, Washington and Oakland were very much Wing Chun oriented, even the school in Los Angeles I would say was 60 percent Wing Chun. All three schools curriculum was pretty much the same. I would say the Los Angeles school had more punching and kicking in the curriculum than the other two, That is why trapping is the main course at the school so I can see the first and second generation students still adhere to that (Wing Chun) because, that is that all they know.  

An early Wing Chun classmate of Bruce’s from Hong Kong made outrageous claims after Bruce’s passing such as Bruce wanted him to teach his students Wing Chun. Also this person has presented himself as an authority on Jeet Kune Do.  This is despite his admission to last seeing Bruce in 1963.

TW: This one individual studied Wing Chun with Bruce Lee in Hong Kong and he admitted that the last time he saw Bruce Lee was 1963, so he really has no idea what Jeet Kune Do is all about.  When this particular person arrived in the USA in the mid 70’s he was a complete unknown, even in Hong Kong he was a very unknown Wing Chun practitioner. I think he has tried to create a reputation based on his association with Bruce Lee since they studied together with Yip Man in Hong Kong. I think he has tried to use Bruce Lee as a means to promote himself. 

I noticed in the article Bruce Lee wrote in the 70’s on Chi Sao, it was made clear that those postures were from the Wing Chun system and not Jeet Kune Do.  Furthermore, he sought another person to take authorship of the Wing Chun book. Why do you think he went to such lengths in distancing himself from Wing Chun?

TW: Black Belt magazine requested the article as very little was known about Wing Chun, so he wrote the article for that reason. Even at that time he was distancing himself from Wing Chun that is why he was specific that the postures were Wing Chun and not Jeet Kune Do. As far as the Wing Chun book was concerned. Bruce would always do various things to make ends meet, such as teaching JKD, getting residuals off the Green Hornet, etc. He thought perhaps he would write a book. He didn’t want people to mistake Wing Chun for his art, so he picked another person to act as the author. Bruce Lee’s original choice was Peter Chin. Peter really did not want to do it because he traveled a lot back and forth from Hong Kong and did not want to deal with challenges as a result of the book. Bruce’s next choice was James Lee. After the pictures were done and the book was written, Bruce changed his mind about publishing the book. Some time later they discovered James Lee had incurable lung cancer and was in a financial bind. Bruce felt bad, so he went to Mito Uyehara and asked, could he publish the book right away and give the advance to James Lee. This is why the book ultimately got published.  

Most people don’t know that Bruce lived with you for two weeks in your small apartment.  How did that come about and how did you and Bruce’s Great Dane Bo-Bo get along?

TW: The reason Bruce and his family stayed with me was the house he was going to move into would not be ready for two weeks and he had to be out of the house he was currently living in right away. Bruce told me, he was going to have to move his family and dog to the school. I said why not stay at my place, instead. Linda and Brandon had my bedroom, Bruce slept on my couch and I slept on a mattress on the floor. The big dog Bo wanted to sleep with me. I would push him away, but he kept coming back. After a while I gave up and said ok, you can sleep with me (laughs).                                                                                                                                          

I know you were present at a lot of James Coburn and Steve McQueen’s lessons, any interesting stories there?

TW: On occasion I was with Bruce during their sessions. James Coburn was more philosophically oriented. Bruce could be very philosophical at times and I think this was the main draw for James Coburn. I saw more of Steve McQueen and I recall one time Bruce took me to Steve McQueen’s house in Westwood Los Angeles. His house was built like an 18th Century Castle. We would work out in the big courtyard, which had sandstone rock which had a rough surface. I recall Steve tripped and cut open his big toe and there was this big piece of flesh hanging there. It was a bloody mess and Bruce said we better stop and Steve said no, lets keep on going and training. Steve McQueen was tough and very physically oriented whereas James Coburn was mellower. That is how I recall them.  

Joe Lewis once said you were an old and close friend of his and the only student of Bruce’s he ever met in Bruce’s lifetime. I bet those training sessions were informative and fun.  How do you recall those sessions?

TW: Yes, quite often Joe Lewis would come to train with Bruce and I was there. Joe was an excellent martial artist and top tournament fighter at that time. Bruce was working with him on how to improve his technique for tournaments, so sometimes I would work with him. Usually when Joe would come for training he was very serious, then again sometime he would be in a joking mood and we would have a little fun during the training sessions. Later on Joe became the full contact champion. I have a lot of fond memories of Joe Lewis and some 20 years after Bruce had passed away, Joe and I connected again, taught some seminars together and became very good friends.                                                 

After Bruce passed away, you had a large void in your life, losing a dear friend and teacher.  How did you go about putting JKD together to the degree that you have?  In other words, how did Ted Wong become the JKD man he now is in 2007?

TW: For me, it was not easy continuing his art after he passed away because I had lost a teacher and was not sure which way to go. Fortunately, I had my good friend Herb Jackson, who was also a long time student of Bruce Lee, so we worked together on what we had learned. We worked mostly on physical techniques. I managed to stay with what I learned from Bruce. I never looked into other arts. I also began to research Bruce’s writings. It took me about 15 years to really understand what Jeet Kune Do was all about and even more time to develop my skill. I really put a lot of time into it. Bruce left a lot of information behind which served like a road map, but you have to study it and work at it to make it all come together and that is how I got where I am today. I also had a lot of help through my students. Through teaching the last 15 years, I learned a lot about JKD and myself. 

You once said you never had a serious desire to teach JKD publicly, what changed your mind? While you have been a blessing to you students how has teaching affected your life?

TW:  I feel I am very blessed to be able to teach a small group of very dedicated students and we are all on the same wave-length. We all are trying to promote and perpetuate Bruce Lee’s art, through teaching. I learned as much working with and teaching my students as I did studying with Bruce Lee. 

In your pursuit of JKD, are there things you've discovered that Bruce never taught you?  And if so, do you still consider these things JKD and why? 

TW: If you really understand Bruce Lee’s art and having spent as much time as I have, 30 - 40 years, I discovered many things in the art itself, which Bruce Lee never taught me. These are things within the structure of Jeet Kune Do. Once you understand, you can apply what is already within the structure.  Innovation of the art is about understanding the inner workings. When you understand this you can further simplify. Everything, I learned is not from an outside source but from inside JKD itself. Any discoveries I made were already contained within the art as Bruce designed it. Bruce’s notes and writing provide a roadmap so by sticking to his principles it is still Jeet Kune Do.                                                                             

Have you ever heard of the term “Jeet Kune Do Lite”, if so, what does it mean vs. regular JKD?

TW: I heard this term Jeet Kune Do Lite, I think back in 2001. I think what this particular JKD teacher meant was most people were teaching a watered down version of JKD. He was saying that people were over commercializing JKD, kind of like a McDonald’s version of JKD, which is what he meant. I think he was implying people were motivated by greed, etc.  

Some Bruce Lee students charge $2,000-$4,000 for a for a 2-5 day course with an up front understanding the participants will be certified instructors as a result. How do you feel about these practices? 

TW: I think Bruce Lee would turn over in his grave knowing people charge this kind of money for so little training and then promote these people as an instructor to teach his art. I think practice is absurd and motivated by greed.  

There are also some who certify people who they barely know. A person may host the JKD instructor for one or two seminars and get certified as an instructor, some even certify people they have never met face to face. What do you think about these practices?

TW: To begin with it takes years of training and practice to understand the art of JKD and to be able to teach. An instructor who certifies someone after just one seminar, this shows the lack of credibility of that instructor. They lack integrity and respect towards the art and to martial arts in general. No reputable instructor or devoted martial artist would do things like this.  

What is your policy of certifying people to teach Jeet Kune Do

TW:  I think really, rank is a privilege, you have to earn it, and you cannot buy it. Nobody pays to be ranked by me. They earn it! The requirements are, I look for moral standards first. Second is how hard working and dedicated the person is to the art and also if they really devote their time to promote and perpetuate Bruce Lee’s art for the sake of the art not for personal gain.  

Your student Teri Tom’s first book did really well. What can you share with us about the forthcoming new Teri Tom JKD book?  And will there ever be a Ted Wong JKD book and or DVD series?

TW: I am very proud of her. She is a very good writer. She has been with me a long time. She is very intelligent and works hard. She went out of her way to do a lot of research and that is what this book (The Straight Lead) is about. The book is based on Bruce Lee’s writings. This is a very good resource for people wanting to learn Bruce Lee’s art. Her second book is going to be an excellent book as well and should be out next year. It to will be a great JKD resource. This book will go into detail about the mechanics of the techniques and the applications as well.  I do not plan to do a book on JKD myself. I will leave this to my many knowledgeable and capable students to do that for generations to come. My goal is to share my knowledge with them so they can continue on. Perhaps I’ll do a DVD to archive my body of knowledge.  

Do you have any hobbies aside from martial arts?

TW: My hobby is really outdoor things like camping and fishing.  I’ve always intended to buy a camper, someday and just live it up. I want to do a lot of fishing.  Right now my time is occupied mostly with martial arts, but hopefully I can still do that in the future.  

What do you feel was Bruce Lee’s greatest gift to you?

TW: Actually, I received so much from him. By nature, he was a giver not a receiver. I think he spent all his life giving of himself and of his knowledge. I think at the time I did not realize until many years later the magnitude of what I really received from Bruce Lee. It took me many years to understand his art and to realize that his art really doesn’t just apply to martial art, but applies to how you conduct yourself in all aspects of life. What I learned from his teaching such as efficiency and other things lead to self-confidence, reliance, and sufficiency. I think these are the greatest gifts I received from him.  

Bruce Lee has been gone along time. Do you still miss him?

TW: Oh yes, I miss him, but at the same time. He is still here, so in that sense I do not miss him. He is out of sight physically, but he is still here. When I teach, when I read his notes or when I am practicing, I feel like, he is there with me. Of course, I miss his physical self, but I feel his presence. Even now, he is still here teaching me.  

Sifu Wong, I would like to thank you for your time and candor. I wish you well in all of your life’s endeavors.  

Bob Landers is a long time student of Sifu Ted Wong and teaches a small group in Tulsa OK. For more info email BobLandersJKD@aol.com or visit www.boblandersjkd.com